ARE THOSE WHO PASS ON, IMMEDIATELY PERFECTED?
BY: LINDA KEITH
A dear friend and I were talking about those who pass on, to the spirit realm. She, like MANY believe that once a person passes on, they are immediately perfected.
Of course, we all know that ALL is perfected in God’s eyes. He sees us all perfected, because as He looks at His Plan for us as finished, AND He looks only at the present time of His Plan and Work. But, as to perfection, all HAS TO COME INTO MANIFESTATION, and that includes Spirit, soul and body. And perfection CANNOT MANIFEST until the changing of the mind happens. That means that ALL must “PUT ON THE MIND OF CHRIST.”
Here is the part of my friend’s belief that I want to look at”
QUOTE: “HI Linda,
The scripture the Lord gave me when I asked Him about people’s struggles on the other side is “Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.” 1 John 3:2 RSV
I’ve read that verse so many times, but this time I got it. What the Lord actually said to me about people who die is, “When they see me as I am, they shall be like me.” When do they see Him? When they pass from the flesh into the Spirit realm.
You have taught for a very long time that all God’s work is finished, done, and this is the same thing. There is no more work to be done either on this side or the other side. This perfection takes longer to manifest in flesh (thus your hospital stay with the flu, my chronic back pain, and Henry’s aches and pains), (not real name) but once we are in Spirit, there are NO hindrances for the perfection, which is Christ, to manifest.
Paul wrote “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.” 1 Corinthians 13:9–10 RSV
The church of Christ mangled this scripture to try to make it prove that when the bible came, we had no need of the Holy Spirit. That is blasphemy, pure and simple. Christ is the perfect, and He has come. The Hebrew writer was speaking of folks who had tried to serve God, but who had passed on long before Christ came. Now that He has come, they are perfect, even more than we, because they no longer have to deal with the flesh.
XXXXXXX “END OF QUOTE
With different scriptures, and what Father has shown me, I understand this subject differently than the way my friend sees it. I’d like to look at this a little closer.
The FIRST thing that we must KNOW is that the ENTIRE NT is about RENEWING THE MIND. ALL of the NT IS SHOWING US THAT Jesus’ death and resurrection made possible for us to “PUT ON THE MIND OF CHRIST”. Without the putting on of the MIND OF CHRIST, NO ONE could MANIFEST THAT MIND. The OT is about the physical and the carnal mind, the NT is about the coming forth of the MIND OF CHRIST. We must remember that CHRIST IS FATHER’S LIFE. Yes, Jesus was the Christ, but, now because of Him, we are CHRIST. The Mind of Christ allows us to know WHO we are.
The second thing we must know are the following scriptures:
A) God is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34)
B) God is a just God. (Duet 32:4)
C) The Kingdom of God is within. (Luke 17:21)
D) Ye are the temple of God. (1 Cor 3:16-17)
We will look at these as we go along. Let’s look at some parts of the email.
QUOTE: “HI Linda,
The scripture the Lord gave me when I asked Him about people’s struggles on the other side is “Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.” 1 John 3:2, RSV.
I’ve read that verse so many times, but this time I got it. What the Lord actually said to me about people who die is, “When they see me as I am, they shall be like me.” When do they see Him? When they pass from the flesh into the Spirit realm.”
First of all, we DO NOT have to die, to see Him. To “see Him, as He is”. What we “see” of Him depends on what level of revelation HE has given us, OF HIM (and us). If we see Him as Savior, and US as mere mortals, then that’s all we’ll see of Him; and probably in the form of the “the man”, Jesus. If we see Him as, us being One with, then we see Him when we look in the mirror and when we look at each other. Father manifested in the flesh. (1Tim 3:16) HE HAS NEVER LEFT THIS FLESH!!! This flesh body is where He lives. (1Cor. 3″16-17), His Kingdom, His throne, everything concerning Him, lives in these flesh bodies. (Luke 17:21). When we look at ourselves, when we look at each other, WE ARE LOOKING AT HIM. IF we are not seeing Him, then our focus is not where it should be. Just because we leave the flesh body, doesn’t mean that THEN we see Him. PERFECTION is what we’re talking about. PERFECTION is not reached until the changing of the body, or the dead being called back into a perfected body. IF we remember, PERFECTION, is when DEATH HAS BEEN SWALLOWED UP. If we die, then we have not swallowed up death. Jesus died and resurrected as an example for us to follow. He said, “I only say what I hear my Father say; and I only DO what I SEE MY FATHER do.” This was BEFORE He died. He SAW FATHER!! So, we don’t have to go anywhere to SEE Him. He’s here, within us. We are HIS LIFE, not ours. BUT, IF we have not received understanding of WHO we are, we see Him as He is, in whatever understanding we have received. And IF the dead instantly received perfection, why would they need in HOPE? (1Cor 15:19)
1Cor. 15:19, “If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.”
Now, this is telling us that if we think that ONLY in this natural world we have hope, then are are most miserable. This means, that ALSO we have HOPE in the spirit realm. In other words, if one of our loved ones pass on, and they have not accepted Jesus as their Saviour, there is STILL HOPE for them in the spirit realm. The body has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. The MIND is what brings forth the plan of God. The mind can be changed in the spirit realm, as easily as in this world. We have hope for ALL, regardless of where they are. Acts 17:28, 1Cor. 3:16, 1Cor., 1John 4:17)
God is no respecter of persons. (Acts 10:34) IF God could only be seen, when a person died and entered the spirit realm, He would be a respecter of persons. We have had the incorrect understanding of this scripture.
This scripture, as we’ve been taught, has said, He loves us all equally, regardless of what race we are; regardless of our appearances and actions. This is not what this scripture means. What it means is this: Father laid a plan, and each of us have to do the same thing to fulfill that plan, regardless of where we are, in this world or the spirit world. It means that because one of us might be weak and one of us is strong, that He will allow that weak one to cause Him to change His plan. No, no, no. He changes His Plan, for NO ONE. There is salvation, Pentecost, and Perfection, in His plan and EVERY ONE of us MUST walk through them to reach perfection!! Now, if one dies and hasn’t accepted out Savior, he CANNOT just instantly be perfected. (In the Spirit, they are saved, because of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, BUT, IT HAS TO BE MANIFESTED, whether they are in the spirit realm or in the flesh realm. We MUST ALL WALK THROUGH HIS PLAN, or if not, He would be a respecter of persons, IF He gave perfection because they passed into the spirit realm. God is not a liar. What He planned for one, He planned for ALL. All of this, all the way to perfection, comes by Him enlightening us as to who we are and walk in the knowledge. He prepared us, so that we COULD walk into that knowledge, He BECAME ONE WITH US (actually we’ve ALWAYS been ONE WITH HIM.) HE IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS, dead or alive! We ARE SPIRIT BEINGS, NOW. A spirit is a body-less, form of energy. If the body dies, that energy force lives on. But, if that energy force hasn’t received the Truths of God, they cannot manifest that Truth, whether we are in the natural world or in the spirit realm. The mind, the manifested Mind of Christ is what brings forth perfection.
Look at the story of Lazarus and the rich man. It was said to me, “that was BEFORE Jesus died and resurrected. But, that doesn’t matter. What we see in this scripture is that, even though, both had died and was in the spirit realm, THE RICH MAN HAD NOT CHANGED from his carnal thinking!! This shows us that he STILL had not walked through God’s plan; so, he STILL HAD NOT PUT ON THE MIND OF CHRIST. (now, don’t mistake the fact that even BEFORE Jesus came, CHRIST WAS STILL HERE. Christ was then as it is now, FATHER’S LIFE. God Was Jesus, BEFORE the foundation of the world. But, ALL STILL HAS TO MANIFEST HIS LIFE. Now, IF the rich man had been perfected as soon as he entered the spirit realm, his thoughts would have ALSO BEEN PERFECTED, and it’s obvious that his thoughts were not perfected. He didn’t get the picture! This is an example that tells us that because one has passed on to the spirit realm, doesn’t mean that they are perfected, because they have not put on the mind of Christ.
You see, God’s plan is not just to be perfected in the Spirit, but to MANIFEST that perfection SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY. (Heb 6:1-3.)
You see, God’s plan is not just to be perfected in the Spirit, but to MANIFEST that perfection SPIRIT, SOUL AND BODY. (Heb 6:1-3)
This means that perfection IS TO BE HERE ON EARTH. Jesus prayer was, “thy Kingdom come, in earth (our earth and the natural earth) as it IS IN HEAVEN“. We know that “heaven” is not somewhere out in space. But, “heaven” is in the Mind of Christ. A state of being. The spirit realm is where we remain UNTIL PERFECTION IS SEEN HERE ON EARTH and has happened in the spirit realm.
Hebrews 11:39-40, “These all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having foreseen some better thing for us, that they without us should not BE MADE PERFECT.”
Perfect means “complete”. Those will not be complete UNTIL they are back here in a glorified body. They cannot be made perfect UNTIL perfection is seen HERE. I DO realize that those who have passed over, already have perfection in the Spirit, just as we do, BUT, their souls have not reached perfection.
They HAD to receive the Holy Spirit, even after they had died and was IN THE SPIRIT REALM!!
The Arabs, Moslems, that die NOT believing in Jesus, MUST STILL ACCEPT HIM AS SAVIOURS to be saved. They must then walk through God’s Plan. The flesh body has nothing to do with it. (if one has already died. They receive that at perfection.) IT’S THE MIND THAT MUST BE CHANGED. Yes, in the SPIRIT, they have been save, but, they HAVE to learn that, just as here on earth. ALL ARE SAVED, but there are MANY who have to learn that, yet. The flesh body or the being without the flesh body, WILL NOT stop God from working His Plan with those who die not knowing Jesus.
No, just because we die, doesn’t mean that once we enter the spirit realm, we automatically are perfected, IF our mind has not been changed. That mind MUST MANIFEST, in the spirit world or in this world.
Take this into consideration. Jesus has ended all sin, right? So, if there is no more sin, and if one comes into perfection the minute that they die and enter the spirit realm, then IF I kill myself so that I will be perfected, that would not be a sin counted against me, right? Would I WANT to kill myself, in order to be perfected? To be perfected I would want to do whatever it takes to be perfected. And what is keeping me from that perfection is that I know that this belief isn’t true. To see no more sickness, to see no more trials for those I love, to see no more war and hatred between my spiritual family, to know ALL, experimentally, everything that God knows and be all that He has planned for me to be; oh yes, IF dying would bring all of this about, you’d better believe I’d kill myself, in a flat minute. But, Father’s Plan IS LIFE, HIS LIFE to come forth from each and every one of us. No, dying would not bring me into manifested perfection.
Father has told me, “As I am, so are you, in THIS WORLD.” That means PERFECTION. And He is walking it out through me. And you know what? I believe HIM. And those who are waiting in the spirit realm, for me to come into perfection, so that THEY can come into perfection; well you’d better believe that is my hope. And when that perfection comes to US, THEY will come into perfection and be back here in their new bodies. (which I don’t believe is far off.) Hallelujah!! All glory to Father!! HE sees it finished and is awaiting us, to walk completely into His finished work, the manifestation of that work! And it is close. Regardless what anyone’s flesh eyes sees in me or those who are beginning to walk in/as Him. It is true, we are One with Father (although some don’t know it yet.) and are nearing the manifestation of Him walking through us. Amen!!
Those who have died and are in the spirit realm, some are coming into the this changing too. But, all that are there, MUST have the mind of Christ manifest in them, just as we must. HE IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS! Those in the spirit realm MUST manifest the salvation in the soul, just as we must. There are NO hindrances at all, for God to not only bring forth the understanding that ALL must receive, but also, there is no hindrances to the manifestation of His Plan. (here or in the spirit realm.)
Let’s look at the rest of the email.
QUOTE: Paul wrote, “For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.” 1 Corinthians 13:9, 10, RSV.
The church of Christ mangled this scripture to try to make it prove that when the bible came, we had no need of the Holy Spirit. That is blasphemy, pure and simple. Christ is the perfect, and He has come. “UNQUOTE
I agree 100% with what Paul said. The problem is, we haven’t ALL come into the same understanding of this verse. There are still those of us who still know Jesus, the man Jesus, after the flesh. They still see the flesh man, Jesus, as the ONLY perfect one. BUT, the revelation of John 17:3-4, where we are told that Jesus RETURNED to FATHERHOOD. And to 2 Cor. 5:16, which tells us to “KNOW JESUS NO MORE AFTER THE FLESH ”
Yes, the Perfect has come, BUT, remember, HE MANIFESTED that PERFECTION! It was not AFTER He returned to the spirit, it was HERE ON EARTH, where He had become Father again, and came to live IN US. So, the perfection was placed in US. This is WHEN the IMPERFECT left the world.
In the Spirit, WE are perfect and WE are walking into that perfection. But, people look for that perfection with their natural eyes, and they will NEVER see it with the natural eyes. We ARE what HE SAYS WE ARE. We will manifest it as THE MIND IS CHANGED.
Those in the spirit realm are still learning, just as we are. Learning does not stop once we die. We had better hope so, because of some of the brethren, like Ben Laden, and Sadaam. If they died today, to go right into perfection, would prove Father a respecter of persons.
And remember another thing. For something to manifest, it doesn’t take a flesh body. When the Mind of Christ has completely come forth, manifested, then also is perfection manifested.
When Jesus was on earth, He said that He would lose none that was given to Him, but, He didn’t mean that we could live as murderers and die without accepting Jesus as Savior, and bingo, bango, we are perfected. Would that be JUST? Would that not be a respecter of persons?
Now, I want to look at the Rich man and Lazarus. (Luke 16) The thing that I want to see here, is the “spirit realm”. I’m not going to write the whole thing out, but, you can read and study it, at Luke 16: 19-31. This is an allegory to learn from.
Luke 16:19-22, “There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his (the rich man’s) gate, full of sores. And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s’ blossom : the rich man also died and was buried.”
Now, we see that BOTH men are dead. Abraham represents the spirit realm and BOTH men are there, WITH ABRAHAM. Notice, each man IS IN A DIFFERENT PART OF THE SPIRIT REALM.
VS 23…“he lifted up his eyes, being in torments and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom..”
Now, we know that that “spirit which returneth to God” is saved, but, the salvation of the Spirit must be known and there are 2 more salvation’s that that man must walk through. (Thes. 5:23-24)
VS 24… “And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.”
It is evident that the rich man HAD NOT had a change of MIND. (soul). He still considered Lazarus lower than himself, a servant, if you will. Which shows that perfection had not been attained. BUT, it’s on its way. The FLAME spoken of is GOD. “Our God is a consuming fire”. It’s not that , like the old wivestale, the devil was standing there burning the rich man at all times. No! The stubble is to burned out of the rich man , just as it is in US! HE IS NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS, HE WILL NOT CHANGE HIS PLAN, REGARDLESS OF ANYONE!
VS 25 look at the first four words, here. “But Abraham said, SON…”
You see will have always been and will also be, Father’s Son. But, there is a process that we have progress through.
Now, to show that the spirit realm is not the same to all. Just as here on earth; when we go through our tests and trials, IT IS FOR A LEARNING. Our walk must be.
VS 25, “But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy life-time receivedst thy good things and likewise Lazarus evil things; BUT NOW he is comforted and thou art tormented.”
Can you see that the rich man is about to LEARN something. Something is going to be worked out and a manifestation of a change of heart is on its way?
Also: VS 26, “And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf…”
Did you notice the “you there?” To me, this is telling me that others must be where the rich man was at. And there was a gulf that could not be crossed over, between the two places. This is not a “punishing holdover”. It is a realm of Father’s Plan that must be learned, just like us and everyone else.
When we read the rest of this, we see that the rich man was not perfected. He, like all of us, at times, want to tell Father how to do things. We want HIM to trust US, not visa versa.
No, we must listen and learn and walk through all three salvations that are in Father’s plan. Understand, in Father’s eyes, it is done. But, they must still manifest, whether in the spirit realm or here on earth. Father is JUST. Father is NO RESPECTER OF PERSONS.
One more scripture and we’ll be finished with this study.
Rev. 10:1-3, “And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun (SON) and his feet as pillars of fire. And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth. And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth; and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.”
As we see, this “angel” or messenger is the many-membered Body of Christ (seen in Rev. 1:13), that have manifested and what is He doing? He is teaching Father’s Word. He’s telling of what is about to come, BEFORE PERFECTION. You notice, He is standing and teaching BOTH SIDES, earth and the spirit realm and all the people in that realm. Which tells me, perfection HAS NOT MANIFESTED in BOTH, realms, earth or the spirit realm. Again, YES< YES< YES, it is finished, but, if one doesn’t know it, or doesn’t know that it’s there for us to walk into and for those in the spirit realm to attain to, they MUST BE TAUGHT so they can MANIFEST it. BOTH REALMS.
There’s a translation of the bible that says, “Those in the spirit realm are standing on tippy toes, cheering on the Sons of God”. Why? Because there are some in the spirit realm, as well as the natural earth, that have grasped the Truth of Father’s Work being finished, and are on their way, walking it out and when it is done, the incorruptible bodies manifest and perfection has been reached.
Folks, there are those who HAVE to go through salvation, Pentecost and perfection, in the spirit realm as well as here.
So, I leave this in your hands and hearts. Father will show us ALL His Truth.
*The Hebrew writer was speaking of folks who had tried to serve God, but who had passed on long before Christ came. Now that He has come, they are perfect, even more than we, because they no longer have to deal with the flesh.
ARE THOSE WHO PASS ON IMMEDIATELY PERFECTED, PARTS 1-2 [Linda Keith] 1